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An awkward position

To those of you that have read my planning thread or seen other related posts, this is again about the one girl who has given me constant stress since getting engaged.....so here goes...

 

She is pregnant and due beginning of May (our wedding is May 25th) this is her first baby.  Our invites went out last month and on the RSVP card it states that we are having 'no children apart from immediate family'.

My OH had 3 phone calls in the space of one week - his friends called to say they had seen our note but they had babies that would be under 2 months old and breastfeeding so did it apply to them also - my OH stayed firm and said that yes unfortunately it does include babes in arms.  One couple declined which we totally expected as their baby is also due early May and they weren't sure they would want to leave it.  The other 2 couples - the men are coming and leaving their wives at home, that's up to them!

I saw my friend the other night and the wedding wasn't really mentioned but as I was getting my coat on to leave she said 'oh hold on I have this for you'  she handed me the RSVP ticked 'yes' but said 'we are a maybe - we ticked yes but we are gona see how we feel once the baby is here and make a last minute decision or maybe just pop along to the evening'

I was a bit taken a back so I just said 'oh ok' and left.  When I got home OH asked 'does she know she cant bring her baby, especially now that I have stayed firm with my friends'  I said that I didn't know? she didn't ask or mention the note about 'no children' my OH thinks that she will think that the note doesn't apply to her as she always seems to think she is more important than anyone.

Now that I have had time to digest what happened and what was said I am concerned about having a 'maybe' response to the wedding.  Its an expensive 'maybe' and also very stressful when it comes to table plans later down the line.

The awkward position that I am in now is; Do I talk to her and say that I cant really accept a 'maybe' but also I totally understand that she cant give a definite 'yes' as she has no idea how she will feel - her baby at worst could be a week old and there is no way she will feel up to a wedding and I don't blame her, but I also don't think that's mine and my OH's issue and we shouldn't have to fork out for it.  The only definite answer she can give is a 'no' but then technically am I un-inviting her from our wedding?

There is also no way she would want to leave her tiny baby, and I do believe that she thinks the rule doesn't apply to her which in itself winds me up after everything she has put us through.

I just want this sorted so that I can start to relax and enjoy the countdown to our wedding! xxxx

Posts

  • Honestly, I think if you value her as a friend (and I don't know how close you are) then you need to accept her baby being there. 2 months is very young and you're right that she won't want to leave it.

    I'm in a similar situation, no children other than wedding party. But a friend of mine will have a 6 week old baby that she'll bring. She's been excellent about the whole thing and said she'll sit by the door and take the baby out if it cries during the ceremony (I didn't ask for any of this but her understanding is appreciated). Do you think your friend would be like that?

  • MrsG2bxxMrsG2bxx Posts: 868

    No I don't think she will be like that unfortunately.

    Its not about how much I value our friendship its awkward because now we will be seen as making one rule for one and one for the other where my OH's friends are concerned.  We never wanted children to our wedding (well, he didn't) but as there are about 15 children on his friends side and only 3 on my side I agreed with him.  He has now said no to his friends and they have been brilliant and understanding about it but I'm not sure how they will feel when their wives are sat at home and my friend is there with her new born.  It just isn't fair really. xx

     

  • SammykateSammykate Posts: 4,014 New bride

    I agree you can't let her bring the baby if you have already said no to others.

    I would send her a message saying you didn't want to say at the time as it felt a little awkward, but you need a definite answer as to an RSVP by X weeks before the wedding. You appreciate that the baby will be young and it will be hard for her to leave it to come to the wedding (makes clear baby isn't invited!) so would she feel more comfortable if you just put them down as evening guests? and 'I know you will understand that we can't afford to pay for places when people may not attend'

    If she doesn't like that, then well you tried. Just put her as a 'no' and tell her the evening invite still stands.

  • I get that it isn't fair to have one rule for one and not for the other, but I do feel saying no to newborn babies is a bit harsh. I had the same policy as you, so no children, but two of my close friends had babies they were breastfeeding so of course they were invited. I understand from your perspective but look at it from theirs: you either choose to disrupt the feeding pattern of a tiny baby or don't go to your friends wedding. It's a lose lose on something that should be a joyous occasion! As for husbands coming without their Wives and children, I think those families are being incredibly accommodating of your wishes. I'm not sure you are showing them the same thoughtfulness they are showing you. I don't think your friend assuming she can bring her baby is her 'assuming she is better than everyone else' I think it's common sense that you don't leave a baby weeks after it was born to go to a wedding, especially if you breastfeed. I get maybe she is like that about other things,  but genuinely asking people to leave their babies behind to celebrate with you is just odd. If it was my baby and my husband we would just decline. I wouldn't leave the baby and he wouldn't go without me. No matter how close the friendship is. I get it with toddlers or children at an age where they can be away from mom and dad, but I just find it a weird set of priorities. Sorry. 

    Yes you need to clarify with your friend, but make it clear you respect her decision to decline. Say youd love to see her if she felt up to it in the evening, if not then you understand. 

  • MrsG2bxxMrsG2bxx Posts: 868

    Mrs M - I totally agree with you.  If it were me and my OH we wouldn't attend a wedding that our tiny baby wasn't invited to.  I'm as surprised as anyone that the other guests are doing what they are doing, but like I say, that's up to them and their wives. We were fully supporting their decision to decline, so to get the RSVPs through the door was a lovely surprise. 

    I would just like to add as a side note that my friend does believe she is better than anybody else, including in this scenario. She had her wedding 2 years ago and had a 'no children or babies rule' she told my other best friend to put TTC on hold otherwise she could 'forget being a bridesmaid' and this wasn't due to dress fittings it was down to her saying 'the day is about me, not you so I don't want people asking about your bump' the best-mans wife had a baby 2 months before their wedding and she told her she wasn't welcome - the best-man decided not to attend and stay with his wife but popped along to the evening where he was made to feel so unwelcome he left while she went around and told other guests that 'her wedding wasn't his priority so why should she entertain him'

    So in this instance, I don't want to make a separate rule for her, I want to stick by my OH and that's what I intend to do.  Its just that I am not a nasty person and would like the best advice in how I handle the situation going forward.  Ultimately I am aware it could end our friendship.  But to be honest, the older I am getting the less I even want people like this in my life.  That being said, I still have a conscience and want to be kind.

  • MrsG2bxxMrsG2bxx Posts: 868
    Sammykate wrote (see post):

    I agree you can't let her bring the baby if you have already said no to others.

    I would send her a message saying you didn't want to say at the time as it felt a little awkward, but you need a definite answer as to an RSVP by X weeks before the wedding. You appreciate that the baby will be young and it will be hard for her to leave it to come to the wedding (makes clear baby isn't invited!) so would she feel more comfortable if you just put them down as evening guests? and 'I know you will understand that we can't afford to pay for places when people may not attend'

    If she doesn't like that, then well you tried. Just put her as a 'no' and tell her the evening invite still stands.

     

    Thank you Sammykate.  Can always count on you to give good advice! its a pretty horrendous situation to be in and I don't really handle things like this well as I try to please everyone else before putting me first.  This is causing tension between me and H2B though because he has made his mind up and I am still trying to find ways around it etc.  The way she has treated us both over the last 2 years makes him mad that I am even spending time thinking about it.

    I am going to need to speak with her as the rule does apply to her and her baby like it does to the others xxx

     

     

     

     

  • Mrs17Mrs17 Posts: 876 New bride

    I totally sympathise with you MrsG2bxx!! We are not having any children at our wedding (including babes in arms!), and this is no reflection on how much we value any friendships, and we completely understand that some people may choose not to attend for this very reason - but that is their choice, and we have still invited them at the end of the day.

    You're absolutely right, that isn't fair, and I think I would be quite cross, had I made the difficult decision to go to a wedding without my OH & children, only to find that the rule didn't apply to everyone.

    We have someone coming to our wedding who is due 6 days after, and if she gives birth early, I understand that I might need to have a difficult conversation with her.

    This is such a tricky one - because you want to be sensitive but at the same time, you do have your own situation to think of. I think Sammykate's advice is spot on - and puts the ball in her court, is understanding and makes it clear where you both stand.

    Hope you manage to resolve this! xx

  • Just to say MrsG, your guest sounds like a complete cow! If she behaves like that you need to cut and run 

  • MrsJ2017MrsJ2017 Posts: 3,017

    I think by wanting a definite answer before the baby is born then you are definitely knowingly forcing her to decline.

    Theres not a wedding on earth that Id be leaving a newborn baby for, not even my own.

    Its your wedding and your rules of course, but its going to be an awkward conversation however you phrase it, and I dont think any good is going to come from worrying and overthinking it. 

    You dont want babies there, and you cant accept a maybe, nothing is going to change those 2 things, so you need to just be honest with her about it in a gentle way, especially if youre close because she may well be hurt at having to give a no. But then when the time comes perhaps thatll make it better for her when she doesnt have to contemplate either leaving her new baby or letting you down.

  • Oh what an awkward position MrsG2bxx! It will definitely be an uncomfortable conversation, but I agree it won´t be good to have one rule for some and one for others. I would be very upset if I stayed away from a wedding due to no kids policy and then hear afterwards there were babies/kids attending after all. Also your OH may feel like he already had to have those difficult conversations and it sort of would be all for nothing and may cause more issues down the line. As hard as it is if you agreed to this rule it should apply to everyone.

    In terms of RSVP I do find it inconsiderate to say "maybe". She had her wedding already so she should know how important the guest numbers are, not just in regards to money but also table seating. It sounds like there is quite a bit of history there already. If you can imagine your wedding without her it may be best to stay firm with her.

    Good luck!

  • I was in the no kids camp too but my parents are paying for the wedding and very much of the belief that 'kids make a wedding', so I had to relent.

    The majority of our guests are there for the evening party and just 50 full day. I didn't invite kids to the evening. However I have found that most of the day guests are getting their kids collected around 6pm so they can let their hair down for the evening.

    Would you consider telling the baby-mums & dads that you have had a rethink and they can bring their newborns if they want to? I doubt very much they would want to sit in a party atmosphere all night with a newborn baby so they could go home and the fun part will be adults only then?

  • MrsG2bxx wrote (see post):

    Mrs M - I totally agree with you.  If it were me and my OH we wouldn't attend a wedding that our tiny baby wasn't invited to.  I'm as surprised as anyone that the other guests are doing what they are doing, but like I say, that's up to them and their wives. We were fully supporting their decision to decline, so to get the RSVPs through the door was a lovely surprise. 

    I would just like to add as a side note that my friend does believe she is better than anybody else, including in this scenario. She had her wedding 2 years ago and had a 'no children or babies rule' she told my other best friend to put TTC on hold otherwise she could 'forget being a bridesmaid' and this wasn't due to dress fittings it was down to her saying 'the day is about me, not you so I don't want people asking about your bump' the best-mans wife had a baby 2 months before their wedding and she told her she wasn't welcome - the best-man decided not to attend and stay with his wife but popped along to the evening where he was made to feel so unwelcome he left while she went around and told other guests that 'her wedding wasn't his priority so why should she entertain him'

    So in this instance, I don't want to make a separate rule for her, I want to stick by my OH and that's what I intend to do.  Its just that I am not a nasty person and would like the best advice in how I handle the situation going forward.  Ultimately I am aware it could end our friendship.  But to be honest, the older I am getting the less I even want people like this in my life.  That being said, I still have a conscience and want to be kind.

    Jeez I wouldn't want her at all based on this. Why not use some of her exact phrasing and see how she likes it. 

    I'm a bit of a harsh person but I feel sometimes it is very useful! 

    Sammykate has given the best advice here. 

  • OP

    There is no way you can allow her to bring the baby unless you also contact the others to make exceptions for them too. Assuming you don't want to do that, you will need to let her know sooner rather than later and make clear you understand if she can't be there so she knows she's under no pressure to attend and leave the baby. If you wanted to be nice you could give her a slightly extended RSVP date that is just before you give final numbers?

    @thelegacyofmrsm

    I completely disagree that it is "harsh" or "odd" not to allow babies. I have been to more than one wedding where the babies have screamed and not been taken out. I have sat next to people at the wedding breakfast who have been trying to calm fractious babies, and eventually giving up and leaving so I had 2 empty seats next to me, sat next to parents who said we were being too loud and might wake the baby.. Sorry but in my opinion babies and weddings don't mix. Thats not harsh or odd. Its my opinion, it's the OP's opinion and its lots of people's opinion. Fair enough if it's not yours, and I obviously have no issue with you planning your wedding guest list as you choose, but I firmly believe all brides and grooms should get to choose their guest list for their wedding.

    Also you had 2 babies at your wedding - sounds like OP would have rather more in her wedding guests. I would have close to 20 if I invited them. That would completely change the dynamic of our wedding if they all came, and why is my wedding less important than those of my friends who are already married and in the midst of a baby boom just because I had to wait longer for it? 

    There are all sorts of reasons why someone may be unable to attend a wedding. a baby is one of them. So is childcare of an older child where the guest has no family who can help. why is one more important than the other? One of my guests has another wedding on the same day as ours, do I have to change the date so she doesn't have to choose which wedding to attend?

    No one is entitled to a wedding invitation at all, let alone one which enables them to attend. The only thing is that brides and grooms have to respect if people choose not to come.

    It is perfectly simple; if someone doesn't feel they want to leave their baby to attend a wedding they decline and the bride and groom have to graciously accept that.

  • TadpoleTadpole Posts: 2,134 New bride

    I’ve seen a few of your previous posts about this girl and to be honest I am baffled as to why you are still friends with her and I truly believe that the anxiety that you feel towards her and your friendship is perhaps clouding some of your judgement on this issue… because it is quite a strong stance to exclude newborns. Please don’t take this the wrong way…. But do you think that you’ve made this decision because of how badly she has hurt you in the past?

    You’ve said you cannot expect people to leave newborn babies and therefore – in taking that stance you’re basically acknowledging that those with newborns won’t be there and I think you need to say this to your friend, otherwise by virtue of your response last night (and her character!) she will think that the rules don’t apply to her.

    I hope that you manage to resolve this but I really don’t think that you should continue to be friends with this girl as your previous posts have indicated that she is highly toxic – and maybe also seems to bring out the worst in you and others.

  • SammykateSammykate Posts: 4,014 New bride
    Littlespice wrote (see post):

     

    @thelegacyofmrsm

    I completely disagree that it is "harsh" or "odd" not to allow babies. I have been to more than one wedding where the babies have screamed and not been taken out. I have sat next to people at the wedding breakfast who have been trying to calm fractious babies, and eventually giving up and leaving so I had 2 empty seats next to me, sat next to parents who said we were being too loud and might wake the baby.. Sorry but in my opinion babies and weddings don't mix. Thats not harsh or odd. Its my opinion, it's the OP's opinion and its lots of people's opinion. Fair enough if it's not yours, and I obviously have no issue with you planning your wedding guest list as you choose, but I firmly believe all brides and grooms should get to choose their guest list for their wedding.

     

    I totally agree- if a couple doesn't want babies and children at their wedding then that is their choice and not wrong in any way. However you look at it, the little darlings are disruptive and you can't count on parents to take them out of the ceremony if they yowl. My sister's ceremony had some kid shouting over the top of the whole thing. To be honest we would have liked to go that route ourselves, but two of my bridesmaids have babies so didn't turn out to be an option for us. They don't live nearby so couldn't hand them off to babysitters. But, if it's an option for you then I totally understand and think you should stick to your guns! Its your day, not anyone elses.

  • MrsG2bxxMrsG2bxx Posts: 868
    Tadpole wrote (see post):

    I’ve seen a few of your previous posts about this girl and to be honest I am baffled as to why you are still friends with her and I truly believe that the anxiety that you feel towards her and your friendship is perhaps clouding some of your judgement on this issue… because it is quite a strong stance to exclude newborns. Please don’t take this the wrong way…. But do you think that you’ve made this decision because of how badly she has hurt you in the past?

    You’ve said you cannot expect people to leave newborn babies and therefore – in taking that stance you’re basically acknowledging that those with newborns won’t be there and I think you need to say this to your friend, otherwise by virtue of your response last night (and her character!) she will think that the rules don’t apply to her.

    I hope that you manage to resolve this but I really don’t think that you should continue to be friends with this girl as your previous posts have indicated that she is highly toxic – and maybe also seems to bring out the worst in you and others.

     

    I'm going to get back to everyone as soon as I can to thank you all for your support or suggestions. 

    I just wanted to address a few things here:

    I'm asked the same question by all of my other friends and my family. I'm still friends with her because we have another girl in common and I can't stand to see the three of us torn apart or for our friend to be stuck in the middle of us both. In all honesty though, it probably is for the best we part ways because I'm. Not sure how much more energy I've got for our relationship. She is horrible to us both but then the next day can be incredibly sweet and thoughtful. I literally haven't got it in me to write in more depth about her but it is what it is. 

    I want to clarify that I didn't make this decision. My h2b did because on his side there would have been 15 children under 9 and 3 babies under 2 months. I'm not a spiteful person and would never do anything to antagonise an already delicate situation. This is why I'm asking for help. The friction at home is becoming unbearable because I am trying everything in my power to find an alternative. And I have asked my h2b if she can be excluded from the rule. I've cried myself to sleep on 3 occasions because I just don't know what to do. 

    The babies we are talking about haven't been born yet - the decision was made long before we were told our friends due dates would fall close to our wedding. We haven't taken a stance on newborns, it was all babies and children from the start of wedding planning xxx 

  • If it made life easier, you could just use that stance and say no one was expecting babies when you planned the wedding but you understand they may have to bring the newborns by exception, but no older babies or kids please.

    But please don't worry yourself. People probably dwell for all of 5 seconds, accept it and put it out of their minds, meanwhile you are worrying yourself silly. I'd just stick to your guns and say them's the rules, sorry. It is your wedding and it keeps the boundaries clear so you can manage your capacity and budget.

  • I think this is a non issue for now isn't it? You seem to be worrying about something that you may have got wrong.

    Before getting yourself worried about it, I would just ask her outright, you don't usually have to confirm your numbers until about 3 weeks before, so you could just say, you'll put her down as a yes for now, but you'll ask as your about to confirm numbers with the venue as you understand she might not want to leave her newborn.

  • If she banned all children and babies from her own wedding, she has no right to have an issue with others doing similarly.  If she makes a fuss, just remind her of her own actions. 

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